Posts by Half banana

50

Belief in God

by jdash in

when did you guys start to doubt your faith in god?'.

what made you doubt your faith in god?.

thanks !.

I think a problem arises from those individuals who wear the badge of "Believer" and imagine that those who differ must also wear a badge such as "Atheist" or "Agnostic" and similarly fraternise at their own meetings. Of course it's nothing like this. Personally I am without the knowledge of or need for a god, so I think of my self as simply being atheist, as opposed to being an atheist. (Is this too subtle?)

Anyway as for giving up belief in the God of the Bible, I first gave up a belief in the devil because he is a ridiculous characterisation of all that is bad. In fact I pioneered not believing in the devil alias Satan and told other JWs I thought he was just a personification --and nobody complained! So I started doubting all spirit creatures.

Reading philosophy gave me an insight into spotting logical errors and made me realise that truth has to be consistent with evidence and reason-- and there is no concrete evidence for spirits. Then again the God of the Bible is a perfect tyrant. I remember the very moment I became atheist. I was standing, so I sat down and considered the consequences; it meant no more religion let alone no longer remaining a JW.

The relief was enormous, no longer imagining some unknowable and fiendishly powerful busybody permanently breathing down my neck-- and that joy continues!

12

New Ezekiel Book Clarification

by johnamos in

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/pure-worship/summary-of-clarifications/.

is christendom the antitype of ancient apostate jerusalem?.

previous understanding: unfaithful jerusalem is a prophetic type of christendom.

Half banana

The bible has no prophetic value. (Can anyone point out where believing a Bible prophecy has been an advantage?)

Jehovah's Witnesses interpretation of useless Bible prophecy is even more worthless since it wastes the whole of your life and is likely to alienate your family.

Prophecy is for idiots.

7

Is "Independent Thinking" good or bad???

by The Fall Guy in

one source describes independent thinking this way:.

good - w57 8/1 p. 469 par.

good - w72 3/15 p. 170 par.

Half banana

"Independent thinking" is not a common phrase, this is because thinking is normally done independently as a matter of course-- unless that is, you are stuck in a cult.

What cults demand is not to think thoughts other than officially permitted thoughts--this is by any standards a gross violation of human freedom.

Note that the Watchtower quotes are not condemning critical analysis but instead condemning any independent thought, in other words stop thinking for yourself and let us do all the thinking for you.

Really! What authority have these intellectual pygmies at Warwick got to dictate how anyone should think? They have track record of total failure for predicting events from their Bible interpretation and they show not a jot of divine inspiration. Yet they demand your unthinking loyalty and that you hand over your thoughts and even your conscience to them.

Isn't this a prime example of how a cult works? The JW organisation is truly Orwellian!

7

Is "Independent Thinking" good or bad???

by The Fall Guy in

one source describes independent thinking this way:.

good - w57 8/1 p. 469 par.

good - w72 3/15 p. 170 par.

Half banana

The JW org only disseminates propaganda.

The JW org never teach anything remotely useful unless it advances their own interests.

Everything it tells its followers is designed to keep them bound into the cult. Everything it says, as you have posted Fall Guy, is there to promote the leaders and inhibit the normal thinking process of the rank and file.

Propaganda, unlike evidence based fact, is very susceptible to being exposed so threats and inducements are given by the leaders for the flock to stay blinkered and dumb-- So don't you dare ask questions you miserable worms! (It may expose the propaganda for what it is).

Progress in any field of activity is only made through seriously questioning everything, including the "received wisdom" related to the matter in question.

38

What changes would stabilize JW membership?

by StarryNight9 in

i've seen many topics about how things are changing or might be changing in jw doctrine/culture.

some have extrapolated how those changes would result in declining jw membership.

i'm curious to know what changes others think would stabilize those numbers.

Half banana

In answer to the OP:

this would have an effect:

1/ Get rid of the prohibition on blood transfusions

2/ Forbid shunning

3/ Stop teaching the imminence of Armageddon and paradise

4/ Quit door to door preaching

Then they could get back to the key issue; property investment. However it's a pity the rank and file are not involved in the profit dividends.

38

What changes would stabilize JW membership?

by StarryNight9 in

i've seen many topics about how things are changing or might be changing in jw doctrine/culture.

some have extrapolated how those changes would result in declining jw membership.

i'm curious to know what changes others think would stabilize those numbers.

Half banana

Yep, this is the way it works --the GB have already seeded the idea 2034, it's not that far away to make it plausible for those who lost out on the 1914 generation and in their minds and hearts it just could work.........until 2035! And then they start off again and bamoozle another generation of compliant zombies.

Apart from the fact that 1914 was irrelevant and that Noah's ark is a folk tale, the safest thing to do is waste no more time and totally ignore everything the JW org says. They always get everything wrong.

69

JW's Would Stay With The Org Even If 1914 Was Dropped

by pale.emperor in

i asked the question on quora: .

if the governing body abandoned the 1914 teaching, would you leave jehovah's witnesses or you would remain a member regardless?.

https://www.quora.com/if-the-governing-body-abandoned-the-1914-teaching-would-you-leave-jehovahs-witnesses-or-you-would-remain-a-member-regardless.

Half banana

It's a cosy social club. The doctrines don't mean a lot and they are always changing.

The rules are that you must never say anything against the cult leaders. You can have loads of friends but to join you have to leave common sense behind and adopt a paranoid stance of imminent doom for the rest of mankind while you swan into paradise.

That's why people in the West are not inclined to become members anymore, as the world rapidly becomes more educated, the JW beliefs are looking just too ridiculous.

If you were "born in" then along with the guilt about leaving and the fear of losing family support, it's easier for some to keep drinking the Kool aid and try and get what enjoyment they can out of life. Why go through life dragging this ball and chain?

25

Thought Provoking Question to a JW?

by Solzhenitsyn in

did jesus ever utter the name jehovah?.

and if he didn't what are the implications?

nwt answers don't count but feel free to use the kingdom interlinear.

Half banana

Badfish, the thread is whether JC uttered the name Yahweh or whatever sound represented him at the time. As I said there is no record of what Jesus said because all we know about him was written a generation after he was supposed to have died and I repeat nobody wrote it down at the time and nobody remembers verbatim speech from forty or fifty years previously.

There are no historical records of Jesus only the unreliable Bible book of magic events recounts his life--and this is therefore not what historians would call "historical". Yet had he existed he would have made the headlines and been the focus of enormous interest. Had Josephus really known about him he would most certainly written expansively on this important matter since he was a Jewish historian writing for Romans and it was supposed to have taken place on his very doorstep. The comment he is supposed to have made about Jesus as the messiah is an uncharacteristically terse and a later 'Christian' insertion into his manuscript. Most people, possibly including historians want to believe in JC, however a majority believing in something does not make it true.

The mythicist view is not about mythologising a real living person after his death but about using a character in literature--like the myth of the god-man saviour-- then later claiming that he was a real person. Harry Potter lives!

This is what happened many times, the ancient story of a great healer, miracle worker who could raise the dead, the son of a god, was a character in folk tales and his tale was listened to by spellbound audiences at travelling theatre performances. The gospels manifest the language of a transcription of such a folk play.The character and life events of Jesus were known for millennia before Jesus of Nazareth. The attractiveness and leverage of the Graeco-Roman Jewish God man was to claim to the Roman world that he came to life and died a sacrificial death--just like all the preceding fictional saviours.

People will believe without good evidence if the idea gives them hope.

25

Thought Provoking Question to a JW?

by Solzhenitsyn in

did jesus ever utter the name jehovah?.

and if he didn't what are the implications?

nwt answers don't count but feel free to use the kingdom interlinear.

Half banana

Actually there is no record of Jesus having ever uttered a word.

All we have are words and sentences attributed to him a generation after he was supposed to have lived. There are no eye witnesses from Roman documents of the Bible's account of a miracle worker who could bring back the dead, let alone any verbatim records of his speech.

So by dwelling on what this fictional character said, this speculates on an existing myth and worst still it reinforces a credibility in the minds of those fixated by Christianity. After all if a person is quoted he must have lived?

17

JWs using 'apostate' phraseology?

by neat blue dog in

i've mentioned before how a regular pioneer used the phrases "tight-pants tony" and "don't drink the kool-aid".

well the other week, a different regular pioneer, and elderly one in fact, was talking about the simplified watchtower being discontinued and the normal one replacing it, and she said 'i guess they're just gonna dumb-down everything'.

then too even the org itself used the words "fade" and "shun" in recent articles, words that were previously shied away from.. anybody here experienced something similar, a seeming pimi saying something that makes you wonder if they've been sneaking ex-jw 'spiritual food' on the side?.

Half banana

The direction the JW org is going is that shown in the film Idiocracy. This bleak vision of the future is when polysyllabic speakers are viewed with suspicion and only base interests and desires are catered for. Lawns are sprinkled with Kool aid. Education is forbidden but no doubt, since no brain work is needed, there could be attendance at a Kingdumb hall.

I'm looking forward to the time when unwittingly the terms PIMO or POMI is used in the Watchtower study.........July 15th 2020: "Are you physically in but mentally out?" Although, come to think of it, the word "physically" might stump a few modern readers!